The Two Generals’ Problem

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  • Tom Scott
    Tom Scott   4 weeks back

    Yes, I had help with the graphics for this series. There's no way I'd have animated that myself! On that note, thanks to Dashlane for sponsoring and helping me hire an animator: their free trial link is https://www.dashlane.com/tomscott

    • Liberals Get the Bullet Too
      Liberals Get the Bullet Too  1 days back

      Why don't the two generals have the messengers meet in the middle, and each return with confirmation of having met? This should immediately double the survivability of any particular messenger - they're only travelling half the hostile distance.
      Further, you could have a second set of messengers in an intermediate space to act as a witness or a redundancy.

    • steve d
      steve d  2 days back

      Doesn"t mention food delivery company by name, shows headline with delivery company's name...

    • Andrew F
      Andrew F  3 days back

      How is it unsolvable? Wouldn't you just need a maximum of two confirmations sent in order after the original message? If you get at least one confirmation in the correct order after the original message then you know both parties received the original, right? What am I not understanding here?

    • john smith
      john smith  3 days back

      who would put the castle in the valley but a computer tech

    • ERMAN ATES
      ERMAN ATES  3 days back

      It was very well put. Animations were only fabulous. Thanks

  • BleedingRaindrops
    BleedingRaindrops  52 minutes back

    this is a really cool problem. and a really great explanation. Not being a software engineer myself, a lot of why I'm here is through sheer curiosity, but your explanations are always entertaining and easy to understand, so I keep them on a backlog for the day they become relevant to me. Thanks for keeping this channel awesome.

    • XerO
      XerO  1 hours back

      couldnt you just send one messenger with a message to have the a messenger from each side to meet at some kind of halfway point and then return to their general

      • George Hugh
        George Hugh  2 hours back

        Castles aren't built in valleys, generally, generally.

        • Lou
          Lou  3 hours back

          You could just get past the castle with your whole force, telling the other force to attack with you - so you become one big army. Problem solved?

          • CS:GO сФинщини
            CS:GO сФинщини  4 hours back

            Bitcoin solved the Byzantine generals' problem

            • Emily An
              Emily An  6 hours back

              I earn like 20 quid an hour for deliveroo it’s not bad 😂

              • =NolePtr
                =NolePtr  7 hours back

                I've never heard it referred to as an idempotency key. I've always heard it called a "nonce"

                • Giovanni Joe
                  Giovanni Joe  8 hours back

                  Super informative! Thanks very much for the great content!

                  • Emily An
                    Emily An  6 hours back

                    story short I got 50 quids worth of Wagamamas for free.

                • flutty bitch
                  flutty bitch  8 hours back

                  You are my new favorite channel. Subscribed.

                  BTW, I had the same problem when purchasing Dragon Age: Inquisition. Took a month for EA to return my money.

                  • Michael Thomas
                    Michael Thomas  9 hours back

                    "A single human error is never the root cause"

                    Tell that to my development manager who came in to the position with nothing more than a background in marketing & graphic design and understands absolutely nothing about coding anything more complicated than changing a few things on an HTML template.

                    • Dan Scherck
                      Dan Scherck  9 hours back

                      Interesting factoid: The Spanning Tree Protocol, used in Networking to prevent network loops, was invented by Radia Perlman, whose doctoral thesis at MIT was on something very close to this idea. Her paper was entitled "Network layer protocols with Byzantine robustness"

                      • Magic Morgan
                        Magic Morgan  10 hours back

                        The fact you spent £1,795 inc vat per minute of this videos graphics is beyond me

                        • Bluestripe
                          Bluestripe  11 hours back

                          I had this with steam with a gift and sent 3 skyrims to my friend, by the time we'd realised the refund was no longer possible.

                          • NikoHD203
                            NikoHD203  12 hours back

                            I feel so smart now😂

                            • Real Sky Luke
                              Real Sky Luke  14 hours back

                              *I was a sub before you hit 200k, WTF WHEN DID YOU BLOW UP???!!!!! 1.8 Million!!! I never even noticed!!!!*

                              • Reagan Epps
                                Reagan Epps  15 hours back

                                I know this probably wouldn’t work with computer science stuff but if they sent a messenger to meet the other and they both go back that might work

                              • alnoso
                                alnoso  17 hours back

                                i dont get food delivery apps
                                is it so hard to call a human and say "hey i want a pizza"

                                • Sebastian Nielsen
                                  Sebastian Nielsen  19 hours back

                                  There is actually a way to "solve" this problem, and that is continually send messages. They could contain a number, my message number, and the last message number I saw from you. Of course they must be encrypted and end2end verified.
                                  Continuially send these messages, lets say with 10 minutes apart. Stop sending messages 1 hour before the attack.
                                  If you stop receiving messages, count 1 for each missed message, Reset counter if you receive a message. If count exceeds 6, attack.
                                  If the number "I last saw message number X" is more than 6 - (count), attack.

                                  Regardless on how the adversiary capture the messages, it will result in a successful attack.

                                  HINT: This is how alarm system works to prevent jamming of wireless signals.

                                  • Ptao Tom
                                    Ptao Tom  14 hours back

                                    Seems like once both generals have received at least one acknowledgement they can just attack since the time hasn't changed.

                                • Black Light
                                  Black Light  20 hours back

                                  youtube recommended, wtf? Why? I neither understand computer logics or having problems with my food arriving.

                                  • Alexander Cavrich
                                    Alexander Cavrich  21 hours back

                                    I

                                    • less kiss
                                      less kiss  20 hours back

                                      err, Works fine for me... sounds like user error....

                                  • Drake H.
                                    Drake H.  24 hours back

                                    Wouldn't you be able to include a signal response request in the initial message (talking about the two generals problem) - like general a gives a time and requests that general b light a large fire in a visible area to confirm receipt and agreement of the message.

                                    • [TRCZ] NoidEXE
                                      [TRCZ] NoidEXE  1 days back

                                      4:55 but how can you make the same order three times and the server not notice it's the same order? I mean can't you use a pseudo random number generator or something? You only get the next random number if you receive a confirmation or cancel the order. That way if the server gets the same random number for the same client it can tell it's the same order. I'm just a game designer so maybe it's harder than this but I can't think of why it wouldn't work.

                                      • less kiss
                                        less kiss  20 hours back

                                        What if someone wanted to do the same order for multiple people. A certain restaurant verifies double orders

                                    • Mike Pratt
                                      Mike Pratt  1 days back

                                      Suggestion for dinner next time - Salmon in a dishwasher..?

                                      • Alexi Hickin
                                        Alexi Hickin  1 days back

                                        I work for deliveroo and I remember this evening, i delivered Wagamamas to a house who had already received their order. I had to wait with them while they got a refund, long story short I got 50 quids worth of Wagamamas for free.

                                        • Alexi Hickin
                                          Alexi Hickin  1 days back

                                          I earn like 20 quid an hour for deliveroo it’s not bad 😂

                                          • Raymon Crane
                                            Raymon Crane  1 days back

                                            Those look like HP 7933/7935 disk drives in back. Used to fix those back in the day.

                                            • roasted pancakes
                                              roasted pancakes  1 days back

                                              Just send two million messengers with a paper each towards the blue army. The paper should have a time to attack and a check mark at the bottom of the page. Make the blue army check every single paper and send all of the messengers back. Then both armies will have a reasonable guarantee that each army got the message. Alternatively, reroute one of the armies to meet the other army and have a combined attack with both armies.

                                              • TelFiRE
                                                TelFiRE  1 days back

                                                There’s nothing unethical about ordering food. I work for Grubhub. Yes there are things I would rather have different, but wouldn’t at their job? By not ordering food all you’re doing is denying me money and making my job harder

                                                • TelFiRE
                                                  TelFiRE  1 days back

                                                  And frankly the only unethical think you’re is to frame this is a question of ethics. Businesses are allowed to have different policies and people are allowed to agree or disagree on those policies without it being a matter of ethics. If you don’t want to work there you don’t have to

                                              • Simon Johnson
                                                Simon Johnson  1 days back

                                                It's not "unsolvable", the word is "insuperable - Pedant

                                                • Ask to seduce Miss
                                                  Ask to seduce Miss  1 days back

                                                  knows if A made it and A knows B made it. Both army’s attack. Solved. I know this wouldn’t work in computers but it is a solution if it were just a puzzle

                                              • invisiblebears
                                                invisiblebears  1 days back

                                                Why couldn't they just continually send back messengers with confirmation until the proposed time and if one of the messengers didn't show up Abort or in the case of a computer disconnect or and endhandshake?

                                                • Ask to seduce Miss
                                                  Ask to seduce Miss  1 days back

                                                  A sends a messenger to b. If it makes it , b sends both that messenger and a new messenger from b to the castle. Messenger B turns back and messenger A continues to a

                                              • lampree
                                                lampree  1 days back

                                                why did this video get uploaded 3 times??

                                                • Robert South
                                                  Robert South  1 days back

                                                  Seems like once both generals have received at least one acknowledgement they can just attack since the time hasn't changed.

                                                  • 007one
                                                    007one  1 days back

                                                    Bitcoin

                                                    • TheTech9
                                                      TheTech9  1 days back

                                                      This channel is awsome, and this guy is pleasant voice to listen to. No homo

                                                      • Carl
                                                        Carl  1 days back

                                                        Hey dude do you still see dead people?
                                                        oh nevermind.

                                                        • Jake Wish
                                                          Jake Wish  2 days back

                                                          What if someone wanted to do the same order for multiple people. A certain restaurant verifies double orders

                                                          • Stuart Wilson
                                                            Stuart Wilson  2 days back

                                                            err, Works fine for me... sounds like user error....

                                                            • Tinka Like AngelOK
                                                              Tinka Like AngelOK  2 days back

                                                              Justeat 😂

                                                              • hmmm
                                                                hmmm  2 days back

                                                                No plussed how this solves the two generals actual problem. Poorly explained.

                                                                • xirsamoht x
                                                                  xirsamoht x  2 days back

                                                                  Speckled Jim & his friends!

                                                                  • Imelda Chandra
                                                                    Imelda Chandra  2 days back

                                                                    I wonder what if like this :
                                                                    Gen A sent message (8 pm) to Gen B

                                                                    Gen B reply (ok. 8 pm) to Gen A

                                                                    is it possible?

                                                                    • Imelda Chandra
                                                                      Imelda Chandra  2 days back

                                                                      I wonder what if like this :
                                                                      Gen A sent message (8 pm) to Gen B

                                                                      Gen B reply (ok. 8 pm) to Gen A

                                                                      is it possible? or there is another hindrance?

                                                                      • Poldovico
                                                                        Poldovico  10 hours back

                                                                        Gen B doesn't know that A got the message

                                                                    • Ailsa Ni
                                                                      Ailsa Ni  2 days back

                                                                      ally with the other general, and then assume the message got through.

                                                                      • Verne Jules
                                                                        Verne Jules  2 days back

                                                                        Tom, I understand that the idempotency token/key can solve the problem of double orders/messages. But how does that solve the Two Generals Problem? Forgive my slow brain.

                                                                        • Ailsa Ni
                                                                          Ailsa Ni  2 days back

                                                                          So the solution to the two generals problem is to send a third of your army into the dangerous valley, all of them with a message to attack at a certain time with the survivors to

                                                                      • Cullenak47
                                                                        Cullenak47  2 days back

                                                                        A sends a messenger to b. If it makes it , b sends both that messenger and a new messenger from b to the castle. Messenger B turns back and messenger A continues to a. B knows if A made it and A knows B made it. Both army’s attack. Solved. I know this wouldn’t work in computers but it is a solution if it were just a puzzle

                                                                        • Daniel Newton
                                                                          Daniel Newton  2 days back

                                                                          Have each army send a messenger when they're ready. When the two messengers meet in the middle (taking precautions to avoid getting spotted), each one goes back to their army and says "we're good to go". If the messengers don't make it back, they will assume that they died so can send another, until the two meet and send a return message.

                                                                          • Kingsly9802
                                                                            Kingsly9802  2 days back

                                                                            >If you are in computer science and working on a problem that involves potential loss of life, I really hope you aren't watching a series called "The Basics".
                                                                            But they're fun!